hi guys im new

archangel62 · Post by **archangel62** » 30 Nov 2008, 08:29

How strong are the ZZ/R LSDs?

And could you get them rebuilt to be tight and grippy again locally? Or would that require unique parts?

Post by **elky** » 30 Nov 2008, 12:37

didnt you read my zz/t build up dude?

i got a centre from japan and had iit fitted locally, they machined up some new thicker shims so it would lock earlier

basically there is nothin to rebuild inside, just new shims / bearings and maybe a good lapping

mine is toight to the point of chattering the wheels

yes they are stronger but not by much, however the stock stuff is pretty good to begin with

archangel62 · Post by **archangel62** » 06 Dec 2008, 03:46

Ahh yeah, sorry dude, I read it but it was awhile ago, and my brain's like:
"F*** off, we're full!"

How much did getting it rebuild like that set you back?

And if you do come across a spare, lettuce know how much you'd be after...

Post by **elky** » 07 Dec 2008, 09:47

the good news is the clutch packs are high tensile steel and simply do not wear, the sun gears do wear but mine were serviceable

the main prob is broken teeth on the gears, but u can substitute diesel parts too

the bearings are easily gotten locally

my centre i got from japan was ok, the diff shop machined up new shims for extra bite and fitted new carrier bearings

the centre cost me $500 posted and the diff shop charged $700 for the rest

it was money well spent, i am really happy how it turned out

as for gettin another, u wont find one soon, i am lookin for another now for my coupe that has a zz/r open diff

i got spares here but they are being kept

cheers

ke20_lor0la · Post by **ke20_lor0la** » 07 Dec 2008, 13:45

How thick is your shim? I'm looking at shimming my lsd too.

twincam_gemini · Post by **twincam_gemini** » 18 Dec 2008, 19:20

wow things have gotten out of hand since my last post.

ive taken the center to a welding shop and had is welded.
it has been the best thing ever for traction omg also when the center was out i pulled the touqe tbue out to to find its a aftermarket strengthen jobby.WooHoo
any ways im really thinking of selling it soon as my mech mate has offered me a really good price that i think is to good to be true.
plus im really sick of spending money on new tyres every week

Greengem20B · Post by **Greengem20B** » 27 Dec 2008, 16:09

Before it goes take a heap of pics of the turbo setup for us can ya....please!

Cheers

Todd

Post by **Poida** » 01 Jan 2009, 15:53

I'd suggest doing a conversion with the Commodore LSD centre. Any VB-VK with LSD is the centre you need. You still use your Gemini housing and the pinion and crown gears but the open wheel differential centre comes out and the LSD differential centre goes in it's place. However, this sort of change to a diff is something best left to a pro. You need to pre-load and align it exactly right or it will soon be noisy. Best option is to find the LSD centre out of a Commodore, UC Torana or small Salisbury in HQ-WB Holdens and hand it to a diff builder specialist.

You'll also need some modified replacement axles to suit. Gemini use 23 spline but the LSD centres will be 25 or 28 spline.

Locked centres are illegal, no ifs or buts. You won't have any choice but to skid steer and that instantly means a defect as well as a risk of being busted under hoon laws. As well as that it adversely effects steering, safety and induces unnecessary strain on the drive train.

.

Post by **elky** » 02 Jan 2009, 09:53

the other option is to use a diesel diff and buy a new Quaife 24 spline lsd but that would cost big $$$$

cheers

twincam_gemini · Post by **twincam_gemini** » 04 Jan 2009, 22:47

Poida wrote:I'd suggest doing a conversion with the Commodore LSD centre. Any VB-VK with LSD is the centre you need. You still use your Gemini housing and the pinion and crown gears but the open wheel differential centre comes out and the LSD differential centre goes in it's place. However, this sort of change to a diff is something best left to a pro. You need to pre-load and align it exactly right or it will soon be noisy. Best option is to find the LSD centre out of a , UC Torana or small Salisbury in HQ-WB Holdens and hand it to a diff builder specialist.

You'll also need some modified replacement axles to suit. Gemini use 23 spline but the LSD centres will be 25 or 28 spline.

Locked centres are illegal, no ifs or buts. You won't have any choice but to skid steer and that instantly means a defect as well as a risk of being busted under hoon laws. As well as that it adversely effects steering, safety and induces unnecessary strain on the drive train.

.

lol are you serious?????
spend close to $1g putting a Commodore lsd that wont handle the power and will flog out within a few weeks.
or spend $30 on a carton of xxxx gold and have something that hasnt let me down yet?????
i know which way you would go.

twincam_gemini · Post by **twincam_gemini** » 10 Jan 2009, 16:46

time for an update

after the last dyno run they told me the injectors where running at 100% on 20psi so if i wanted more power they had to be replaced.
i wasnt going to bother replacing them but i got a phone call from my mech and he said he could get his hands on some 600cc units for cheap.
so i said what the hell they got put in today along with a 1" fuel rail.
so onto the dyno she goes on monday hopfuly we can screw 30psi into her.

Greengem20B · Post by **Greengem20B** » 15 Jan 2009, 00:32

1" fuel rail

nice!

Get some photos up mate

Post by **Poida** » 15 Jan 2009, 20:35

I've hesitated in removing some parts of this thread. It's not a case of my having a shot at anyone in particular but one thing I really want to do is to try and keep the site free of discussing illegal modifications. Past experience has shown me that misleading info can lead to others believing that what is discussed is allowable. The discussion in point was encouraging a modification that would lead to an instant major defect.

Please don't encourage others to perform illegal modifications.

Post by **IZU069** » 15 Jan 2009, 21:16

Good!

Post by **Poida** » 15 Jan 2009, 21:28

Locked diffs are not street legal. The mechanic who mod plates your car should not pass a locked diff. The first cop who sees you skid steer will certainly lock it for you... Locked up in an impound yard. Making suggestions that locking/welding the diff is a viable option is incorrect.

No more discussions recommending locked diffs please!

The Salisbury diff should manage the engine as you described if you drive it accordingly. It's the aggressive driving that will cause problems and no matter what you have build something will give somewhere. I can list a number of parts that are likely to give in the package you have, two of which are wheels studs and the axles.

In all states except Qld you need engineering approval for that engine. To get approval you'd need a drive train upgrade to match the power output of the engine if the standard diff wasn't deemed capable of coping with the new power output.

You are already pushing that engine to it's limits with 20lb boost. It is a 10.5:1 static CR engine so under 20lb boost it's peaking at around 24.8:1 CR providing it' not using a decompression plate. If you don't know what has been done to the base engine, I'd say call it quits at what you have. How much more do you think it's going to handle before you blow it? No pump petrol will manage that sort of compression ratio. It's already going to be knocking under hard acceleration and any increase in boost is likely to kill it.

(Ask your mechanic/tuner to warranty his work to the extent of rebuilding your engine if the extra boost he recommends you push it to kills the engine)

archangel62 · Post by **archangel62** » 17 Jan 2009, 04:07

10.5:1? I thought twincams were all 8.9:1?

And as for the locker, my two cents say that our responsibilities as posters, and your responsibility as webmaster/moderator is simply to point out that lockers on the street are illegal in nearly all circumstances. If people want to do it with that knowledge, it's their choice, and you can wash your hands of it. Pointing out the merits of lockers is just like pointing out the medical benefits of marijuana. Bad points should be mentioned to even out the balance, but in essence there's nothing illegal about stating facts

Oh, was just using that as an example btw, I don't do it myself.

twincam_gemini, a 1" fuel rail sounds insane. The 600cc injectors would work a treat, but to be honest 20psi of fuel rail pressure is nothing, start running 50-60psi fuel rail pressure before forking out for expensive injectors. That might even half your injectors' duty cycle. But yeah make sure they use a damn good knock sensor when tuning your enigne, and step boost up gradually. Have it tuned on a hot day when completely upto operating temp, the last thing you want is to be thrashing it and have a huge detonation, goodnight Irene, and be left needing a whole new engine.

Post by **IZU069** » 17 Jan 2009, 11:40

archangel62 wrote:...my two cents say that our responsibilities as posters, and your responsibility as webmaster/moderator is simply to point out that lockers on the street are illegal in nearly all circumstances. If people want to do it with that knowledge, it's their choice, and you can wash your hands of it.

Alas Archy, it doesn't work like that. If someone carried it out because we gave them the idea, or they followed the "instructions", the site et al would be liable.
If it were a dedicated off-road site or thread, it MIGHT be okay, but would need copious warnings and caveats "Kids, do not try this at home", "Not for street use", "for experienced LSD/locker drivers only", etc etc.

Hence Poida's approach is correct.
And in this case, there are other sites where such info can be found. Not that we would provide a link, nor directly refer them to such sites.

Post by **Poida** » 17 Jan 2009, 20:45

There is a legal responsibility when running a web site like this. As owner/administrator I'm in a situation where I have to make a decision. If I know something illegal is being discussed and it progresses to forum members encouraging others to also perform illegal things then I have to pull the pin on it.

It's not only for legal liability reasons but it's also for common sense. Encouraging others to illegally modify cars is just adding to an ever increasing problem that one day could see an end to us being allowed to modify cars period. Past governments have found it easy to place bans on things that only impact the minority groups, like shooters who wanted to keep semi auto rifles and shot guns. If the majority of the population were involved then it's different but people like us who enjoy modifying cars are not the majority. It won't seriously impact on an election to ban all car modifications that require engineering approval. I don't mean shit like a rear louvre or some seat covers, I mean stuff like a set of alternative seats or out of spec wheels & tyres or an alternative engine. It's easy to say it can't happen but it can and will if governments see it as a simple way to control a problem they know exists.

Some younger people these days seem to be more irresponsible in the way they comply with rules in place. Look at the stuff being shown on current affair shows in the past year or so. Attitude that sucks bad, big noting young people who don't even feel they have to answer to police. The Sydney clips mid year showing middle eastern youth were a disgrace.

As Peter mentioned, other places where people write to say they are aware that what they are doing is illegal and just don't care they are breaking laws. Why have the new anti hooning laws come about? It's because peoples attitudes have changed. Governments are moving forward to try and reduce that problem by taking drastic steps. It didn't just happen overnight, it's the culmination of years of progressive escalation to the point something finally had to be done. It's up to us to keep looking after the modified car scene. If we don't play an active role from within then we all lose in the long run. If we all just don't give a hoot, say bye to your twin cam because it won't be legal any more.

The ones who flash in, destroy a few Geminis, attract a lot of attention to themselves then slip out to drive a regular low key car for the rest of their lives, never to be heard of again are the ones we don't need. They leave a trail of destruction behind that leaves the rest of us looking bad.

Post by **IZU069** » 17 Jan 2009, 21:19

Reminds me of many years ago when Bellett clubs (incl the Bellett-Gemini Car Club of NSW) had troubles because of a Bellett that stacked and killed its occupants. Its speedo was stuck up around 90mph (145kmh) if my memory is correct. And that was for the "sedate" Bellett which was fairly rare.
Geminis have a much greater "reputation".

As to other web sites, many seem to think they are untouchable. This is despite and increasing number of "web" prosecutions despite laws not specifically defining such action (but neither do any laws make the web untouchable).

And I've heard a few people telling in disbelief how their car was impounded - and some crushed - for what they believed was trivial "tyre screeching".

archangel62 · Post by **archangel62** » 27 Jan 2009, 04:12

Well, you've made your actions more than justified - legal liability is a b****. The days of social reliance on common sense are dead. Example, I started at a Woolworths supermarket as a Nightfiller awhile ago. I Nightfilled at a Foodland for two years, I've worked at a Coles division store, even Maccas, and at each place I had to go through the same OH&S, the time ranging from half an hour, to a full 8 hour day. Let me personally tell you, not one single thing in these OH&S sessions was more than basic common sense. In a sane society, anyone not following those rules, even without ever having been taught them, would be held liable for their actions and deemed not fit to work. Other rules are so trivial that noone obeys them, moreover if you obeyed them your productivity would be compromised enough to get you fired. Yet the OH&S tells you not to do this or that, so that if something goes wrong whilst you are, you can't sue.

It's like if the government made it illegal to drive in a dress, because some test proved people wearing dresses were 1% more likely to have an accident. A whole lot of girls (and perhaps some guys) would be pissed at this, and noone would give it a second thought. I'd say 5% of the population would change their lifestyles to comply, the other 95% wouldn't. BUT, if a girl in a dress was involved in a car accident, would her insurance cover it? Nope. She was breaking the law.

There are two ways of dealing with the "liability threat" - you can either watch yourself and make sure you can't be held accountable for anything... Or you can say and do whatever you like, obey only morals and hold yourself responsible to your conscience, and hope that if anyone does use it as ammunition against you, you can talk your way out of it. I guess I consider it part of freedom of speech, even though I'm putting myself at legal risk. This is in regards to me, and me only though - as a poster on someone else's forum it's very different of course.

What you want on your forum is entirely up to you - and I can't say I blame you, as a moderator I would probably be far more mindful of liability than I am as a poster. But as a regular member, where the website will allow it, I would happily discuss the pro's and con's of stuff like cut springs and locked diffs, un-approved modifications etc, regardless of the law, so long as I consider my advice to not put anyone in danger. And I say all of this with complete respect for your opinion - I'm always one for a good debate though

I'll keep your rules in mind - they're fair.

Interesting sidenote though, early VW Beetles came out with a locked rear diff I think, I'm not sure if you'd still call it a diff. And I could be wrong, but I've heard some street Patrols etc came out with locked rear diffs from factory, although I'm unsure if that's true or not. But, to reiterate, locking a formerly open diff is illegal and can be dangerous.

Getting back to the thread though, any chance of some pics??

Post by **IZU069** » 27 Jan 2009, 07:06

Ah yes - common sense. Alas my common sense is not yours....

But don't get too razzled at the gov't etc. Australia isn't like the US - you are not guilty through inaction (except as stipulated by regs etc).

And in some cases, there are simple protective measures - eg, lockers can be discussed with appropriate caveats, though it would be better to discuss in the context of those beetles with lockers, and what effects that had. Of course some would see that as disguising a real-now locker discussion, but some of us have better common sense don't we.

There is also insurance, incorporation etc. One car gathering recently put all attendees in danger of law suits when a participant attempted to run another off the road. To the amusement of many, the "attendees" were originally protected via (club) Incorporation (Victoria), but for some reason the organisers broke from that club. (And now the organisers have left the organising to others!)

[Keep in mind that the cost of law suits and medical claims has decreased in Oz. The publicity you hear is just the usual bullsh so that people "understand" why medical, insurance etc premiums go up. It is merely a case of another 10% increase in profit. (Maybe this practice will end after the crash of 2010 - it hasn't seemed to as yet. Oh dear - what happened to all that "bail-out" money? LOL!)]

In the meantime, prevention is best. You know yourself how people misinterpret etc - whether it be finding eGay.com or tipping flatteries upside-down to start the car.
One possibility is writing in the first person "I did this" (but you won't unless qualified, certified etc). But that too may need precedent.

In the meantime, we'll continue packing wheel hubs full of grease, and not taking pressure off locked brakes.

Post by **elky** » 27 Jan 2009, 21:39

no vehicle i have ever heard of has a locker, sure u can get some 4wds from factory that have lockers, but these are a part time switchable item

no passenger car maker would do it, even more so with the beetle as the transaxles were fragile at best in the early days

archangel62 · Post by **archangel62** » 28 Jan 2009, 08:40

IZU069 wrote:There is also insurance, incorporation etc. One car gathering recently put all attendees in danger of law suits when a participant attempted to run another off the road.
...
(Maybe this practice will end after the crash of 2010 - it hasn't seemed to as yet. Oh dear - what happened to all that "bail-out" money? LOL!)]
...
You know yourself how people misinterpret etc - whether it be finding eGay.com or tipping flatteries upside-down to start the car.

Which club was that??

As for the rest, your posts always get a laugh outta me

Actually in response to what elky said, I've never owned a locker either, so it's hard for me to praise or condemn.

Post by **IZU069** » 28 Jan 2009, 13:15

Alas - can't say - others are seeking to prosecute. (Both Criminal and Road laws. Bad enough a few yeas ago, but now with hoon laws etc. Another hoon locked away for a while....)

bellett65 · Post by **bellett65** » 30 Jan 2009, 19:31

IZU069 wrote:Alas - can't say - others are seeking to prosecute. (Both Criminal and Road laws. Bad enough a few yeas ago, but now with hoon laws etc. Another hoon locked away for a while....)

My late grandmother always told me "Take off the T, and you can"