breaks ??
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g200_panno
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breaks ??
just wondering what breaks ppl are using and iff the standard gemini breaks will do the job for my g200w
depends on how you drive and what you've done to your motor. i run commodores all round and i don't think i could go back to standard gemini brakes but ive been in cars gemini's included with most likely more power than you have with standard or barely working brakes and there not that fun to drive. decent brakes will probably cost you between 1500 to 2000 thats doing the basic stuff yourself
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g200_panno
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http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HOLDEN-IZUZU-GEM ... dZViewItem
These are the brakes that i use on mine, they are extremely large and i think they are quite over powered for a gemini but they do the job
These are the brakes that i use on mine, they are extremely large and i think they are quite over powered for a gemini but they do the job
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archangel62
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LOL, Brad I'd call you a spelling Nazi but then I'd be a hypocrite...
It's all about how you drive, I get brake fade with a stock G161Z in the hills - well, okay, once I got my discs glowing, but that's a story of its own... But then again, if you're doing anywhere up to say 160 in a Gemini and hit the skids, you'll still stop, but by the time you've scraped off most of that speed you'll be experiencing brake fade. If you need to stop FAST at that kinda speed, the brakes are gonna get damn hot, and it's anyone's guess what'll happen, from mild fade, to glowing discs, to combusting brake pads and total brake meltdown (gases coming from the pads prevent them from contacting the discs), even to a cracked disc that could completely seize and cause a massive accident.
But that's the extremes. You'll know about this long before it happens - from pedal feel (brake fade = heavier pedal, and hot brakes may make the pedal travel change slightly) to the smell of the hot brakes. Once you have the engine in and running, see how you drive it, and to what degree the brakes are stressed, to weigh up if you need new brakes. If you only experience fade on rare occasions of pushing the car hard, then maybe it's not worth it and you should just drive with it in mind, ie, not load the brakes that much. If you get them hot regularly, or feel that they are near their limit (ie firm pedal, glowing discs or gases being emitted) then upgrade them.
It's all about how you drive, I get brake fade with a stock G161Z in the hills - well, okay, once I got my discs glowing, but that's a story of its own... But then again, if you're doing anywhere up to say 160 in a Gemini and hit the skids, you'll still stop, but by the time you've scraped off most of that speed you'll be experiencing brake fade. If you need to stop FAST at that kinda speed, the brakes are gonna get damn hot, and it's anyone's guess what'll happen, from mild fade, to glowing discs, to combusting brake pads and total brake meltdown (gases coming from the pads prevent them from contacting the discs), even to a cracked disc that could completely seize and cause a massive accident.
But that's the extremes. You'll know about this long before it happens - from pedal feel (brake fade = heavier pedal, and hot brakes may make the pedal travel change slightly) to the smell of the hot brakes. Once you have the engine in and running, see how you drive it, and to what degree the brakes are stressed, to weigh up if you need new brakes. If you only experience fade on rare occasions of pushing the car hard, then maybe it's not worth it and you should just drive with it in mind, ie, not load the brakes that much. If you get them hot regularly, or feel that they are near their limit (ie firm pedal, glowing discs or gases being emitted) then upgrade them.
Twincam needs: surge tank, EFI lines, TPS, recored radiator, hoses, assemble the ECU (50% done).
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archangel62
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LOL how funny is that feeling (in the right circumstance)bad 44u wrote:next time i went to stop it felt like the car actually went faster.
It's like, if you're driving along the highway and noone's around, try tucking your foot under the brake pedal, thinking about something else, and braking... Feels like you're being pinned back in your seat, but you're just rolling.
What kinda upgrade did you go for? I'm thinking about one of these - first for the daily, second for the twincam project I'd say:
http://www.giant.net.au/users/wight/Opt ... 0disks.htm
http://www.giant.net.au/users/wight/Opt ... 0Disks.htm
But I heard you lose a lot of steering lock with those kits. Would that be true? Being a fooley sick dwifter I don't want to lose steering lock
(but seriously)Twincam needs: surge tank, EFI lines, TPS, recored radiator, hoses, assemble the ECU (50% done).
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Poida
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Okies.
Brakes are another of the things everyone races off to alter but why? As long as the original Gemini brakes are up to standard they should work fine. Yeah I know, some of you will argue BUT, Gemini series race cars have to run standard brakes. They all run identical pads, Bendix Ultimate pads in standard calipers on standard discs, standard rear brake drums.
The Salisbury axle type drum rear brakes are exactly the same as used on the UC Torana and all Commodores with rear drum brakes, all that's different is a the number of holes in the drum to suit the 5 stud axle. If they work on the heavier cars they must be ok on a Gemini
What can be a problem is worn parts and fluid that is past it's use by date. The GSR ppl all use new components.
You should NEVER let disc pads wear past the wear indicators. Hear it squeal under brakes chances are you hit the wear indicators, look and see how much pad is showing. New pads have a 14.7mm thick backing plate and friction material, if you see less than 2.5mm of friction material is left, replace them.
Buy new disc rotors and new brake drums. The rear shoes should be radius ground to match the drum radius. That ensures the whole surface of the shoe is in contact with the drum.
Refurbish the calipers with a reco kit, it's just a few rubber components. Use only METHO to clean brake parts, never in oil based solvents. Use only soft cleaning stuff like the green nylon cleaning pads for cooking gear and NEVER rub really hard in a single spot. Don't hone an aluminium cylinder/caliper because they are too soft. Also most have been treated with a process to prevent porosity, wear through that and you will have air or fluid leaks. The rear wheel cylinders are easier and less expensive to replace than to repair.
When installing the seals use a rubber grease if you don't plan on operating the brakes straight away and if it's for a car you run already you can use rubber grease or just clean brake fluid.
Brake fluid, ya know the stuff, top up and that's good enough... wrong. Want the brakes to pull up without fade ever, you need to replace that old fluid. Do it as a routine. Every two years flush out the old and in with new. Don't even think of running old fluid through the new components you just put in. You'll find the old stuff is dirty, fine black particles in the lines etc... its decomposed rubber. It's going to embed in your nice new rubbers.
Brakes are another of the things everyone races off to alter but why? As long as the original Gemini brakes are up to standard they should work fine. Yeah I know, some of you will argue BUT, Gemini series race cars have to run standard brakes. They all run identical pads, Bendix Ultimate pads in standard calipers on standard discs, standard rear brake drums.
The Salisbury axle type drum rear brakes are exactly the same as used on the UC Torana and all Commodores with rear drum brakes, all that's different is a the number of holes in the drum to suit the 5 stud axle. If they work on the heavier cars they must be ok on a Gemini
What can be a problem is worn parts and fluid that is past it's use by date. The GSR ppl all use new components.
You should NEVER let disc pads wear past the wear indicators. Hear it squeal under brakes chances are you hit the wear indicators, look and see how much pad is showing. New pads have a 14.7mm thick backing plate and friction material, if you see less than 2.5mm of friction material is left, replace them.
Buy new disc rotors and new brake drums. The rear shoes should be radius ground to match the drum radius. That ensures the whole surface of the shoe is in contact with the drum.
Refurbish the calipers with a reco kit, it's just a few rubber components. Use only METHO to clean brake parts, never in oil based solvents. Use only soft cleaning stuff like the green nylon cleaning pads for cooking gear and NEVER rub really hard in a single spot. Don't hone an aluminium cylinder/caliper because they are too soft. Also most have been treated with a process to prevent porosity, wear through that and you will have air or fluid leaks. The rear wheel cylinders are easier and less expensive to replace than to repair.
When installing the seals use a rubber grease if you don't plan on operating the brakes straight away and if it's for a car you run already you can use rubber grease or just clean brake fluid.
Brake fluid, ya know the stuff, top up and that's good enough... wrong. Want the brakes to pull up without fade ever, you need to replace that old fluid. Do it as a routine. Every two years flush out the old and in with new. Don't even think of running old fluid through the new components you just put in. You'll find the old stuff is dirty, fine black particles in the lines etc... its decomposed rubber. It's going to embed in your nice new rubbers.
Bleeding brakes
I agree with Poida's overhaul tips. (I'm not disagreeing with the rest - it's just that I don't own a Gemini!)
The metho tip is good. I usually only wash in water which is surprisingly effective (brake gunk usually looks as if it needs petrol or U-236 to dissolve).
Also good tip about NOT honing Al/alloy parts.
Consider getting alloy cylinders sleeved instead of buying new parts.
Steel sleeves outlast alloy and can be honed later. (About 10 years ago, instead of a master cylinder resleeve for $60, I scored (no pun) a sleeved one from a wreckers for $25.)
I do a complete fluid renewal & flush-through at least every 2 years.
This is mainly to try to remove dirt etc, but the normal benefits apply (like increasing the brakes boiling point by 100 degrees!).
I'll often bleed just the slaves/calipers more often - again to minimise internal gunk, as well as remove trapped air.
Clean systems seem to last longer. (Mind you some sources tell you to replace all brake rubbers including hoses every 2, 5, or 10 years etc. Yeah, sure!)
I'd recommend that if you replace any cylinder seal, do the lot (calipers excluded).
It seems that if you replace one seal (eg a rear (slave) cylinder, or master cylinder), the others will go soon afterwards.
I'll pre-bleed the master before refitting. (Fill with fluid and using one hand to pump and the other to lightly block the front & rear exits, pump until airless. The let reservoirs drop until level or under the outlets.)
And when bleeding, I'll start by lightly pumping through all (end) bleeders.
I do NOT "pump hard" until all/most air is out of the system - I reckon hard pumps can dissolve trapped air.
Note that some cars have their unique problems and tricks (eg, TC(?) Cortina needs its front end 1m higher than its rear to remove air from the calipers), but I think Geminis & Isuzus are straightforward.
The metho tip is good. I usually only wash in water which is surprisingly effective (brake gunk usually looks as if it needs petrol or U-236 to dissolve).
Also good tip about NOT honing Al/alloy parts.
Consider getting alloy cylinders sleeved instead of buying new parts.
Steel sleeves outlast alloy and can be honed later. (About 10 years ago, instead of a master cylinder resleeve for $60, I scored (no pun) a sleeved one from a wreckers for $25.)
I do a complete fluid renewal & flush-through at least every 2 years.
This is mainly to try to remove dirt etc, but the normal benefits apply (like increasing the brakes boiling point by 100 degrees!).
I'll often bleed just the slaves/calipers more often - again to minimise internal gunk, as well as remove trapped air.
Clean systems seem to last longer. (Mind you some sources tell you to replace all brake rubbers including hoses every 2, 5, or 10 years etc. Yeah, sure!)
I'd recommend that if you replace any cylinder seal, do the lot (calipers excluded).
It seems that if you replace one seal (eg a rear (slave) cylinder, or master cylinder), the others will go soon afterwards.
I'll pre-bleed the master before refitting. (Fill with fluid and using one hand to pump and the other to lightly block the front & rear exits, pump until airless. The let reservoirs drop until level or under the outlets.)
And when bleeding, I'll start by lightly pumping through all (end) bleeders.
I do NOT "pump hard" until all/most air is out of the system - I reckon hard pumps can dissolve trapped air.
Note that some cars have their unique problems and tricks (eg, TC(?) Cortina needs its front end 1m higher than its rear to remove air from the calipers), but I think Geminis & Isuzus are straightforward.
IZU069 - Isuzu means a lot to me.