Jimbos G180W

[Jimbo]

Hey all, I finally picked up the G180W

The history if the motor as i know it so far is that it was build by Bryce Racing Developments on the gold coast approx 5-6 years go and was sitting in a TG gem that was tricked up to be a multi class rally car. It wasn't hooked up and was removed when the car was brought and a standard motor put in to run the QLD Gem ralley circuit.

Basically when it was removed from the car it was put on an engine stand with manifolds attached and stored at the back of a panel and paint shop. unfortunatly, it was never covered and the cam valley is full of 5yrs worth of dust and crap and there is something pooled around the sparkplugs and anywhere that dust could settle, it has

I have no idea if this motor has ever been started, but there is no carbon in the exhaust and the oil looks brand new still. I have been told it was built to race and worked pretty hard. I have no way to clarify this untill i can track down who ever built it or if i pull it to bit and have a look.

What the motor has:

-180 on the exhaust side of the block, couple of numbers on the other side
-Tapet cover has Izusu and 1800 on it.
-on the front of the head instead of an izusu symbol there is what looks like a stylized scorpion???
-Forward facing plenum/inlet runner(is a one piece thing) with TB and TPS(has 3wires coming out of it)
-Injectors (unknown type) - have plugs with about 100mm of wire for each
-Custom fuel rail
-Fuel presure reg(doesn't look standard will try and identify using numbers stamped on it)
-Custom 4-2-1 extrators cut off about 70mm after the 2-1 join, they are a bit rough
-Dizzy - has 4 wires coming out of it, when i opened it up, all saw was rotor buttom and plate covering the bottom(i am guessing module is under it)
-Waterpump - has a blocked port facing backwards
-crank pully
-exhaust side water jacket manifold with what looks like a modified thermo housing - water temp sensor and one other thing with bent plug points
-modified sump(rough as guts too) has two holes at the front with thread in them - guessing for an oil cooler as this was going to be a rally motor

What the motor doesn't have:

-ECU + loom + sensors(dunno which ones to use yet)
-waterpump pully
-flywheel
-engine mounts
-alternator
-thermo housing cover
-rear lifting hook
-sandwitch plate
-starter motor

I am typing this up at work so not 100% sure i have everthing and i am going to take some pics this arvo and will try to post them up tonight/this weekend.

So basically, i don't really know anything about the internals of this motor and i am very reluctant to take the head to have a look. Alot if the waterjacket holes and holes in the plenum and TB have been blocked up with some grey putty like substance.

I don't have any immediate plans apart from a good clean and trying to identify what exactly i have. I don't yet have the Gem i want to put it in but good things take time and i have alot to learn yet

Cheers
Jimbo

[bad 44u]

i would pull the tapet cover off and take some photos of the cam area and pull the sump off and take photos especially of the bottom of the pistons. post them up and we can have a guess for you. leave the head on if you can. also get some diesel and flush the crap out of it. all the parts you are needing are easy to get most will come off a standard gemini motor only real problem will be a gearbox because of the starter motor being on the wrong side.

[Jimbo]

ok, took some pics this arvo, haven't taken anything off yet, not even the dust


mmmm yummy dust!


valley between 3 and 4, old wires and leaves!!!!???


valley between 1 and 2...mmmm furry!


forward facing plenum/intake runners, looks like a 1 piece cast alloy thing, good shot of the fuel rail and reg, hard to see the injecters because its all grey with dust


front of the head, looks like a scorpion, haven't seen this before, its usually an Isuzu symbol? also, you can see the head gasket, had a close look, i am 99% sure its copper with some red substance between the surfaces. I am 99% sure because you can see the greenish tint that copper gets when it tarnishes, only lightly, but its there


one of the many blocked holes on the plenum, you can see another one side on above this one


can see a line running to the timing cover to below the oil filter, i am guessing its an oil line to spray the timing chain? can also a black plate which is blocking something off, nfi what its covering, but is similar shape to a mech fuel pump hole on a G***Z head


the dizzy, has 4 wires coming from what looks like a plug close to the head(Red Green Black and White), i noticed there is no provision for vacuum advance, i take it this dizzy is off something that had a fuel and ignition ecu?


the sump, its ugly and i have no idea what those two points are for. it looks like back half is standard gemini, front part? nfi. its holding oil at the moment so even with the rough welding its working


the headers, more rough welding, but they are decent size, haven't measured the length yet


hmmm i got nothing, nfi what used to be there


cheers Bad44u, if the ball and chain gives me half a breath this weekend i'll get the tappet cover off and some pics.

I slapped a 300mm spanner on the crank pully bolt and turned it around a few times, it wasn't stuck and seemed to turn over ok, albeit with a bit of force needed

[elky]

i got a few spare dohc 5 speeds here if needed

looks like your block was a bellet/117 coupe block looks of the blanking plate on the RHR

the isuzu symbol confirms the block is older as they had the isuzu crown symbol after mid 70's

the intake is off a 117 coupe and will foul the shock tower if fitted to a gem

also you need the forward down facing oil filter mount as that one makes it REAL hard to change in a gem and might also foul the engine mount

i have a few sumps here with that 2 bolt set up, dunno what that is about and also have a few modded sumps here for extra capacity

the dizzy maybe modded as they were all either points or electronic for fuel only ecu's

they can be modded, i have one here that has been changed to a optical pickup for a fuel/spark microtech

cheers

[Jimbo]

i got a few spare dohc 5 speeds here if needed

already figured you'd be the man to talk to about for one of those

the isuzu symbol confirms the block is older as they had the isuzu crown symbol after mid 70's

so the scorpion was pre 70's?

the intake is off a 117 coupe and will foul the shock tower if fitted to a gem

this came out of a later model gem as is, you sure? (must admit, i have no idea or proof that the gem this came out of was not modded to fit it)

also you need the forward down facing oil filter mount as that one makes it REAL hard to change in a gem and might also foul the engine mount

as above, came out of a gem, but again, dunno what or if it was modded to fit. how hard to change? contortionist hard? or pain in the ass rather stab myself in the eye hard?

the dizzy maybe modded as they were all either points or electronic for fuel only ecu's

i'll have another look, but i looked pretty close at this, there are no blocked holes, fixing points or any other spot to fix a vac advance to this dizzy.
i'll take the cap off and take some pics of the internals this weekend, anything else to look at?

cheers
jimbo

[bellett65]

elky wrote:
the isuzu symbol confirms the block is older as they had the isuzu crown symbol after mid 70's


1973. The early symbol was if I recall clouds around the edge IZU069 should know the detail as this is his era. The crown was as I recall 2 towers reaching for the sky. That Oil filter would be perfect for some one fitting a twin cam to a Bellett. So do not throw it out when you get the Gemini one. The guys on www.Bellett.net may know more on this. they are quite well up on the early 1964 to 1973 Isuzu cars.

[ke20_lor0la]

Let me know if you're keen to sell that oil filter housing. I'm in NZ and putting a twin cam into a Bellett and those upwards filter housings are unobtainable here.

I also have a Gemini/Piazza one if you needed one to swap it with.

[elky]

i will have a upwards facing oil filter adaptor for sale shortly

dunno but goin my rough measurements i reckon that intake would b bloody close at best to hittin

cheers

[bellett65]

i will have a upwards facing oil filter adaptor for sale shortly

dunno but goin my rough measurements i reckon that intake would b bloody close at best to hittin

cheers

Here are a couple of pice of the upfacing filter on a G180W with ECGI inlet. The Z56B filter is a great fit. I also used a longer one that did come close, but it still had enough room to come off with minimum hassle. Once it is up and running again I will go to the larger filter. Mainly to get as much filtration as possible.

[IZU069]

I agree with the above. A 117 with a G200W cam cover.

The extractors are for top-end power. Probably has less low-down torque than a standard engine, unless it's HDT spec or similar.

The dizzy has similar guts to a 4ZE1 optical CAS, but has "visible components" in its base. Connects via a common 4-way spade block.
Can replace with 4ZE1 guts with minor modifications.

So you'll need an ECU with ignition for that dizzy (It has no vac or mech advance).

I have a DOHC forward-down oil filter to swap for an upright version.

I also have the same but with oil-cooler extension holes. That one is negotiable.

[Greengem20B]

elky wrote:
the isuzu symbol confirms the block is older as they had the isuzu crown symbol after mid 70's


1973. The early symbol was if I recall clouds around the edge IZU069 should know the detail as this is his era. The crown was as I recall 2 towers reaching for the sky.

That early symbol in the pic above has Isuzu written in Japanese in the centre of the cloud.

The later "crown" symbol is,from what an Isuzu DP told me years ago,a picture of the companys first building....later they built a "walkway" between the two towers,its no longer standing.

Anyone else confirm/deny this?

He also made the point of Isuzu being pronounced "e"suzu rather then "I"suzu

Jimbo....I havent been past BRD for a few weeks now,they did a lot of work on my white TG,it was prepped by them for the rally circuit years ago.

Ill ask a few mates who were tied in with them if they know whats going on with em,get a contact number for ya if I can.

[IZU069]

The cloud represents the 12 Rivers.
The Masonic symbol or II was "two coming together", often interpreted as the honeymoon between GM & Isuzu.
And the I in Isuzu is traditionally pronounced like the first I in idiot.

[bad 44u]

where you can see the copper is a special gasket for the timing cover andis seperate to the head gasket, but you never know. it'sjust like xmas
hopefully it's full of goodies.

[IZU069]

Yeah - that timing chain gasket is usually an orange rubber and is not part of the head gasket, nor the Kiwi (AA Gaskets) VRS kits.

So remember to put one in. (Who was it that recently forgot and is trying to stop the oil WITHOUT removing the head. Good luck!)

[ke20_lor0la]

The two bolt holes in the sump look the same as my Piazza sump. I can't fully remember but I'm pretty sure it had 2 flexable tabs on it to hold up a hose of some sort, probably AC/PS.

[IZU069]

On my first DOHCs they were for the radiator hose.
But they are handy for any hose, or weaponry of choice.

[Jimbo]

Jimbo....I havent been past BRD for a few weeks now,they did a lot of work on my white TG,it was prepped by them for the rally circuit years ago.

Ill ask a few mates who were tied in with them if they know whats going on with em,get a contact number for ya if I can.

That would be awesome thanks man, I may have a chance to head up to southport myself early next week, will drive past production ave and see if there is anything left


On another note, i have had the rocker cover off, the cams are still covered in assembly grease!, I really don't think this thing has ever been started! underside of the rocker cover was completely clean too and i can't get the damn oil filler cap off, stuck in there pretty hard. They have used some kind of black sealant almost like silicone(its not but close) to seal the cover, no cork here, although there is still cork stuck to the half moon seals as if the last gasket was glued in....took some pics of the cams, will post up tonight

I must admit i am a bit reluctant to pull the sump off as i know you can't get replacement gaskets and it looks like they have use the same sealant on the sump as the rocker cover and really don't want to damange the gasket.

Any have any other ideas on how i can find more info on what is in this? worth putting a preasure gague on the cyclinders and turning it over by hand to check comp?

[Jimbo]

The dizzy has similar guts to a 4ZE1 optical CAS, but has "visible components" in its base. Connects via a common 4-way spade block.
Can replace with 4ZE1 guts with minor modifications.

So you'll need an ECU with ignition for that dizzy (It has no vac or mech advance).

sorry for no being up to play with engine numbers but 4ZE1 is a piazza motor?

after having a look at the pics in this thread http://workshopmanual.org/twincam/viewtopic.php?t=420 my dizzy is the same as in the second pic.

[IZU069]

The 4ZE1 is a Jackaroo/Rodeo engine; 2.6L EFI.
It has the 360 & 4 slot optical (CAS) dizzy with no vac or mech advance, and the same connector as the Piazza equivalent.

The internals are upgraded, but should be able to replace the Piazza dizzy guts.
As I recall, the board screws in from top instead of bottom (or v/v), but I think other differences were trivial.
They are both I-TECs (being ignition also).

Remember - this is "guts" only, not the body (shaft length etc).
And the rotor may be different as they spin in different directions. I can confirm if interest exists (I have both dizzies).

FYI:
4Z b c d e = 1.8, 2.0, 2.3, 2.6;
c2.0 = Piazza; e2.6=EFI. b1.8 only in Shuttles (in Aus)
(And d2.3 is really 2.2 as Poida pointed out, but it is conventionally referred to as a 2.3)

And a question - So why did GMH's 1986 Piazza revert to EFI only, yet have a knock sensor ignition (ie, electronically modified advance)??!

[Jimbo]

ok, got some pics of cams, underside of the tappet cover and internals of the dizzy



sealastic?


very clean, dry to the touch, this hasn't tasted oil in a while


sorry about the unsteady image, will try and get a better one up soon, but if you look hard you can see the assembly grease on the edges of the lobes


close up of one of the intake lobes, again you can see the grey grease


dizzy with rotor button off


underneath the plate in the dizzy, to me this all looks very original, me getting that plate off was the first time tool marks were made on the screws




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[IZU069]

Good pics Jimmy.
I'm wondering what profile the cams are. Many performance G-Ws used the L1 profile - not that I have their specs.
If they are, I expect she'll be good for well over 200HP.

What are the injector numbers? A46-000001?

Your dizzy is Piazza BUT it has the later 4ZE1 style module underneath. (Maybe later Piazzas had them too?) The chopper is Piazza - not 4ZE1 (4ZE1 has 4 long grooves instead of 4 slots). {^d8: clarified its 4ze1 with long grooves}

Are there 3 screws under the dizzy that go vertically up into the module? That's what Piazzas has AFAIK.
The 4ZE1 module use the same screw positions, but the screws go down into 3 tapped holes in the dizzy base.
Though is a 4ZE1 module is in a Piazza dizzy, they'd probably screw in from the bottom like the Piazza.

[Jimbo]

I'm wondering what profile the cams are. Many performance G-Ws used the L1 profile - not that I have their specs.
If they are, I expect she'll be good for well over 200HP.

would there be any markings on the cams?

What are the injector numbers? A46-000001?

haven't pulled any out yet, taking it apart slowly...its still very dirty, want to clean around the injectors before i open up any holes, will prob get that done this weekend

Your dizzy is Piazza BUT it has the later 4ZE1 style module underneath. (Maybe later Piazzas had them too?) The chopper is Piazza - not 4ZE1 (it has 4 long grooves instead of 4 slots).

ok can see the 4 slots inside the outter ring

Are there 3 screws under the dizzy that go vertically up into the module? That's what Piazzas has AFAIK.
The 4ZE1 module use the same screw positions, but the screws go down into 3 tapped holes in the dizzy base.
Though is a 4ZE1 module is in a Piazza dizzy, they'd probably screw in from the bottom like the Piazza.

no idea, but i remember seeing screw heads under the chopper disk, you can just see the edges of them in that last pic, will take a closer look tomorrow

cheers again

edited

[IZU069]

I don't know about any cam markings.

And sorry, I missed the module screws.
So AFAIC see, you have a typical Piazza I-TEC dizzy EXCEPT for the electronics which is the same as the 1989-ish 2.6L 4ZE1 Rodeos & Jackaroos (including that the screws are internal and downwards as per 4ZE1, and the later version pick-up module identified by "folder" shaped groove on top surface; early pickup were flat on top).

Your chopper disc/rotor has the standard 360 slots around the outside, and 4 similar sized slots on the inner radius.
(4ZE1 choppers have same 360 outer, but the 4 inners are long grooves.)

And despite being an I-TEC set up, you have the ECGI plenum (EFI only). Not that there is much difference between them AFAIK.
ECGI could have come off G180Ws from ZZRs. I think all Piazza G200Ws were I-TEC.
In Aus the turbo Piazza has the "Turbo" plenum. It might be a relabeled ECGI being mechanical ignition, but I haven't compared it to ECGI or I-TEC. Another tuit job!

[Jimbo]

really starting to look like this has bits and pieces from all over the place.

[bellett65]

really starting to look like this has bits and pieces from all over the place.

I remember when I got my G180 I had a rather large problem with the dizzy. It did not have one, and still doesn't. After toing and froing I decided that carnk fire was the best alternative, along with the fact that it was 1/3 of the price of a new dizzy. 13 years on still going strong.