Your experiences

Post by **Poida** » 02 Dec 2005, 02:28

Who has used a Delco 808 (in any application, not just a twin cam) and how did you set it up?

Post by **Bradlze** » 20 Dec 2005, 13:37

i know this prob doesnt help ya poida but i think i have a remapped delco comp for my g180w but it is mapped for a g200w but i dont know if that can really help you but if you have questions ask away and ill try and help
oh yeah and its not running in car atm

archangel62 · Post by **archangel62** » 22 Dec 2005, 06:10

As mentioned in another thread, it would probably cost loads to have Delco 808 remapped for a G-series engine for which they are not designed... But I have a noob question. If one has been remapped for a G180W/G200W, could you copy those settings for use with another such engine?

Or, if it must be tuned for each individual engine, could you give the settings to the place that tunes it to save money on having it tuned, thus saving them starting from scratch?

I hope this made sense, but in short I'm trying to save myseld and others spending $600-$1000 on having one of these things programmed.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 22 Dec 2005, 12:33

or ya could just go aftermarket

sorry i'm not much help my twincam has never run a delco since i have had it.

Post by **Poida** » 22 Dec 2005, 16:51

None of the 'G' series ever ran Delco EMS unless someone hooked them up that way. The Delco 808 can be adapted to anything of the 'G' series era, no problem at all.

I'm slowly getting the pages in order to publish. some of you will be surprised just how versatile and powerful the 808 really is. Don't be fooled into thinking it's a dud or expensive to adapt. .

Bradlze, I'd be very interested in the data from that Delco MemCal as a basis to begin my G180W with. I presume it is burnt onto a chip? If you happen to have the data in a "*.bin" file then pass it my way!

Any idea if it was set up with a KalMaker by any chance? Some of the methods mask the data making copying difficult. If you are not sure, snap the cover off and see if the MemCal has a sticker over the EPROM window. If so, quote the info from it. It may be useful in identifying the programmer.

Some things will need changing of course to fine tune. Can you tell me what items were wired into the system? The exact item details would be good too. eg. the source of the original parts and a part number if possible. Many things have different values depending on where they originate from.

archangel62 · Post by **archangel62** » 23 Dec 2005, 02:25

Poida I take my hat off to you.. lol. You know the questions to ask. It seems I'm in the same situation *follows thread patiently*

Post by **Poida** » 23 Dec 2005, 16:52

Anonymous wrote:or ya could just go aftermarket
sorry i'm not much help my twincam has never run a delco since i have had it.

Delco in many ways is just like using an aftermarket except it is being taken from an OEM situation and then adapted by reprogramming to the new use in the same way you would with an aftermarket EMS. Using a flash memory in plkace of the eprom and software you can run on just about any laptop, you reprogram in real time mode.

There is probably a way to do similar things with much of the Bosch engine management of the same era but I've not looked into that angle at all. I like what the Delco has to offer.

archangel62 · Post by **archangel62** » 27 Dec 2005, 05:58

Is any particularly rare/expensive software required to do this? If it's fairly easy stuff it'd be good to be able to plug a laptop into it and tinker, or see what it's doing. I'm probably going to start calling around for prices for the actual computer, and for how much a from-scratch mapping and dyno tune would cost... But I'm sure the latter would not be cheap. Hopefully Bradzle's Delco could give some useful information.

Post by **Poida** » 27 Dec 2005, 23:07

From scratch a full blooded ready to install KalMaker Pro is priced at $1100. Once you have one, or access to one, you can real time tune and then the data you aquire can be used or duplicated in any number of modified 808 ECU's. They need to be modified to utilise the real time software and that costs $800 for each extra real time ECU. It's an exact same thing as the kalMaker in the kit except it has no software or dongle. You need the original KalMaker package to tune it. Alternatively you can just use the data aquired and burn it to MemCals to be used in regular off the shelf 808's. That costs $300 per MemCal. Prices may be a little off the mark but in that general vicinity. Ideally having a group of people sharing a single KalMaker and then using the data in a stocko 808 with a new MemCal the price is way lower. The KalMaker plugs into the exact same wiring loom as a standard 808 does. Pull out the 808 and fit the KalMaker and visa versa.

archangel62 · Post by **archangel62** » 17 Jan 2006, 11:03

Is the $300 to have it burnt to a MemCal the cost of having it burnt, or the actual cost of the part needed? If it's the cost of having it burnt, I was thinking...

Maybe we could find someone who already has a KalMaker, and rather than paying them lots to program it from scratch, just give them the information and pay to have it burnt to a MemCal, and therefore get it done much cheaper, say $100?

Oh and also, is the only downside to a MegaSquirt setup the tuning it yourself factor, and the defectable factor? If so I'm leaning towards it...

Robbo · Post by **Robbo** » 17 Jan 2006, 13:19

the downside of the mega squirt is that you either have to build it yourself, or pay someone else to build it (still, getting someone else to build it isn't a downside really, as it is still cheaper than others), and that it being able to be tuned in real-time it is defectable yes. Also, a sort of downside is that you have to READ A LOT of stuff to understand how EFI works and such, in order to tune your mega squirt effectively... this is also an upside however, and you'll learn so much about EFI in general.

Actually tuning it is no real difference from getting an 808, in that you'll most likely need to put it on a dyno to get it perfect (although you can get it close with patience and driving it around). Although, the mega squirt has the upside of being able to handle wide-band o2 sensors, which will tell you exactly what your current mixture is, ie 15:1 or 10:1 etc, whereas normal (narrowband) o2 sensors only tell you if you are too rich, or too lean, not by how much. Using a wideband o2 you don't need to tune it on a dyno.

I'm trying to think of other downsides to the mega squirt... I can't really... it does everything all the other ecu's do, plus more, and it being open source means people are always adding new functionality.

The name is definately an upside... its like a dodgy porn title

Post by **Poida** » 17 Jan 2006, 13:46

I've had a bit of a look at the MegaSquirt too. I like it but I can't tell you as much about it as Warren (Wfc) can. If you are interested in it, or need to ask about it check out the MegaSquirt site or give Warren a buzz.

My interest is in the Delco because it can be adapted to just about any application and it's powerful, freely available, cheap and looks just like it should be there from factory. There is also plenty of available information on how to go about tuning it once you have the equipment. The equipment required to tune is not that expensive.

archangel62 · Post by **archangel62** » 21 Jan 2006, 01:18

A MegaSquirt II kit costs $250 American - but is still cheaper and more flexible than the Delco. The down side is of course, that it is illegal (I think) as it is user reprogrammable. For those who havn't looked into it, you have to assemble the kit yourself, although apparently it's not too hard.

Poida, I'm no expert, and I was wondering if you could take a quick look at this and tell me how much else I'd need for this to work (e.g. air sensors, crank angle sensors, fuel-air sensor, etc).

The direct link to the kit, from a distributor, is:

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/mega ... -p-59.html

Robbo · Post by **Robbo** » 24 Jan 2006, 17:39

you'd need an intake air temp sensor, and a coolant temp sensor, also need efi fuel pump and all other efi gear required as a minimum. then the list goes up from there depending on if you want to run ignition, and how you run it... I also had to install a crank angle sensor... Plus do lots of wiring.

gem · Post by **gem** » 11 Mar 2006, 12:02

I have used a 1227808 on a Nissan L18, great system. You just need all the matching parts if you want to use the standard memcals without alteration. I used all N13 Pulsar/ Astra Injectors, map sensor, Air temp, Water Temp, Throttle position etc.. Engine size is the same at 1.8L.
(Intake manifold and head was off an import EFI model). For ignition if you have the magnetic type of pickup you can use the module out of the Pulsar/astra/camira dizzy to fire the coil and talk to the ECU. For the nissan Bosch sells a kit to install hall effect in the dizzy. I used this connected to the VN V8 ignition module (modified) which works with hall effect and talks to the same 808 ecu. To adjust the mixture I used a malpassi adjustable regulator with a Meter/LED display on the standard 02 sensor. Apart from that I tried as many different factory memcals as I could find (only about 2 or 3), and used the one that ran the best. Did over 160,000 k's with this setup. A lot of wiring as with any EFI system.

antus · Post by **antus** » 31 May 2007, 11:03

archangel62 wrote:Is the $300 to have it burnt to a MemCal the cost of having it burnt, or the actual cost of the part needed? If it's the cost of having it burnt, I was thinking...

Maybe we could find someone who already has a KalMaker, and rather than paying them lots to program it from scratch, just give them the information and pay to have it burnt to a MemCal, and therefore get it done much cheaper, say $100?
it...

Its got hardware protection, as a programmable gal logic chip that sits across the address and data pins and makes modifications to the data in real time. What it does exactly, who knows? The chip does run without it and shows "security pal: no" in the stats page on the computer. I read it'll run for 1 hour after its detected the engine is running then stop. Since my cars not yet running I left an ECU On the bench like this overnight and it was still running in the morning (with engine running=no, but with room air pressure and temp coming through in real time). I guess that'd be fine for a track car. I dont have my car running yet to play more. Kalmaker is pretty good, but it only runs on ancient computers and I think the after marketies have caught up these days. There are lots of good options out there now. Kalmaker is good if you have an old laptop with hardware parallel and serial ports built in (usb serial is no good), or dont mind factoring one in to the cost.

Im a bit worried about what to do when my 10 year old pentium 1 laptop dies. I really wish it'd run on my 1.6ghz pentium M machine. Well actually it does under windows with a direct parallel port hack. But I have no serial. Anyone got a schematic for a street pro 2 parallel to ecu cable? That'd solve my problem, but nobody on the kal forums knows or is helping.

With regard to the 808 system between different engines, its all based around the MAP (manifold air pressure) sensor. It knows that X amount of pressure equates to Y amount of air, and opens the injectors for Z milliseconds to let through the programmed amount of fuel. If you have different characteristics of the airflow on the way in, the pressure might relate differently to the amount of air getting in (more restriction = more pressure but less airflow), also the amount of fuel getting through in Z milliseconds is dependant on the fuel line pressure. So if you can keep these things constant between the two engines it'll be fine, otherwise the mapping will be out. Either way if you get a brand new good O2 sensor the system will gradually tune itself and improve for the setup its got. With kalmaker you can adjust the speed of the learning so it can get the right tune on its own quicker, then you can read what you've ended up with back to the computer and save it on the chip as the original program. A good way to do it. I hear that works for about 3/4 of the air/fuel tables so its still not 100% perfect.